On Friday, Sept. 29, Wilco released their latest album, Cousin. The Current’s Bill DeVille connected with longtime Wilco guitarist Nels Cline to talk about the new album, of course, but also about what it’s like on the inside of Wilco World.

”To speak to the 19 years with this current lineup, we get along, obviously,” Cline says. “We have a really good time playing together, and we have a good time on the road … and there's just a ton of mutual respect. I really consider these gentlemen my brothers.”

Watch and listen to the complete interview above, and read a transcript below.

Interview Transcript

Bill DeVille: Hey, I'm Bill DeVille and I'm here with Nels Cline, guitarist for the band Wilco. Nice to see you, Nels.

Nels Cline: Greetings, Bill. Nice to see you as well.

Bill DeVille: How was your summer? Did you have a good summer?

Nels Cline: Summer so far is pretty tour-centric. It didn't start that way; it started pretty chill and relaxed. And then we just got back — Wilco — from the five-week tour of Europe and the United Kingdom.

Bill DeVille: And how did this tour go? Was it excellent? Did it go well, for you?

Nels Cline: It went very well, thanks. It was very warm at many of the junctures — like super hot and humid, especially Spain and Italy. Everything is uncharacteristically warm at this point, I think, but musically, interpersonally, and in terms of various brushes with cuisine, it was really great.

Bill DeVille: Do you have any advice for young folks and bands about how to keep doing it?

Nels Cline: I'm definitely somebody who's never wanted to do anything but play music, but I don't get tired of it. So I think I'm weird. And I like touring even, even though I miss my wife and my home life. And so it's all about sound for me. As soon as the sound cranks up, I'm in my element, I guess. So if that's how you feel about music and sound, you'll probably be OK. If you're going into it for other reasons, like fame and fortune, maybe you ought to think of something else like being a TikTok influencer or something.

Bill DeVille: So let's get right into it. There's a new album called Cousin, which is set for release on September 29. And how would you describe the Cousin album?

Nels Cline: Well, I mean, it's... oh, man. Well, to me, in a way, it's like a lot of Wilco records in that it's got some rocking kind of pop elements. And it's got some dark, moody elements. It has some instrumental textures that are maybe unexpected, and it also has some pretty classic Jeff Tweedy songwriting. It does sound a little different; I think that's because of the participation of Cate Le Bon in the project and ideas that she had about just really instrumental sounds. Not so much the song structures, although a couple of them changed a little bit, structurally speaking. And I think that there's some interesting reverbs on this record, that I pretty much can credit Cate with adding to the Tom Schick palette, sonic palette, because Tom Schick was still recording, we still did it in The Loft. You know, he had co-produced the stuff, the last few things with Jeff. He's our engineer wonder. And so it just sounds a little different. And I think that songwriting wise, it's a strong record, and it's got some instrumental stuff here and there. Little bits, like I don't mean purely instrumental, but very instrumental-centric kind of pieces.

Bill DeVille: Well, you guys haven't enlisted outside producers very much, you know, in the 20-plus years, almost 30 years, that Wilco's been a band; you for almost 20 now, right?

Nels Cline: That's right.

Bill DeVille: So what did Cate bring to the table, then?

Nels Cline: Well, I think that she — well, apparently she grew up hearing a lot of Wilco, because her father's a big Wilco fan — so I think she came in knowing which songs were going to address, because a lot of the songs had been around around the same time as the Cruel Country songs. So that basically is saying that there are really a lot of songs, that Jeff was writing a lot of material — and kind of is all the time now for years, I guess — but really started to write a lot of stuff during the lockdown. Very, very prolific. And so I think that she was able to hear what we had worked on, some of the songs we had been recording and demoing, and we reapproached them once Jeff asked us like, "Hey, how about Cate Le Bon coming in?" and we all said, "Great!" And so I think that hearing the songs ahead of time, most of them at least, I think probably all of them, and having been familiar with probably the entire Wilco catalog, she had an idea of what sounds that she wanted to hear on a Wilco record and what the mood would be, instrumental textures, orchestration, whatever. And so that's why I think what sounds a little bit different is that, you know, for my part, she had some very specific ideas about guitar tones and effects or whatnot. And it was fun to try to figure out what it was that would work for her. And sometimes it was pretty non-obvious stuff. She definitely favors a lot more treble sonically than my choices.

Bill DeVille: Interesting. 

Nels Cline: But that's true of most people, I realize! I'm not much of a treble guy. But treble really works for all kinds of music, obviously. And my job, I feel, is to make the song sound the way the song wants to sound, whether that means making sounds that Cate likes or that Jeff likes or whomever, that's my job. And when I do my own music, then I just do whatever the heck I want! But it was fun for me.

Bill DeVille: Now, were there any certain musical touchstones on this album? Or is that something that's like, "Oh, we want to sound a little bit like this on this record." Like Cruel Country, you knew going in that that was going to be more of a country, you know, sort of record, right?

Nels Cline: No, actually, we didn't at all, no.

Bill DeVille: Really?

Nels Cline: We just play Jeff's songs the way they sort of want to sound. And Jeff had written a lot of songs that were, well, he wanted to play acoustic guitar only. But he wrote about, I don't know, 50-some songs in one sort of long, slightly over a month-long process. And so the Cruel Country material, which isn't all country-style material, but it is instrumentally, I guess, more conservative and was played live for the most part. And Cousin are kind of mostly from the same big batch of songs. But so when we started recording Cruel Country, Jeff wasn't thinking of this as a country record at all. He just realized at some point that these, certain of these songs come together in a certain way, and we're starting to feel like kind of a country record. And so we approached the songs, whether they were in an overt country and Western style or whatever, in a more direct and mostly live-performance fashion. And the current record, Cousin — the imminent record, I should say — was more of a layered approach, you know, kind of, which is kind of the way we did Ode to Joy, for example, a lot of that. And I think there are certain similarities in my mind between Cousin and Ode to Joy in that it's that sort of combination of that I was speaking of earlier, of kind of, you know, accessible, catchy, poignant pop music, and some really dark, moody material and sonic exploration.

Bill DeVille: Yeah. I read this this quote that Cate Le Bon said about the band Wilco, she mentioned, "the amazing thing about Wilco is they can be anything. There's this thread of authenticity that flows through everything they do. There aren't many bands who are able to go this deep into a successful career successfully changing things up." What do you think of that?

Nels Cline: Well, thanks, Cate! I mean, going into 2004, Wilco World for me, that's kind of what I was thinking about Wilco even without knowing a lot of Wilco music; I really only knew Yankee Hotel Foxtrot well, and what was then the upcoming album, A Ghost is Born. And the fact that there was going to be this flexibility, this unpredictability, yet it's a kind of artistic, I guess — I don't know. I don't like, "authenticity" is not a word that I would use personally — but there's going to be a level of artistic consideration over commodification, if you will. Not trying to write hit songs, but also, you know, Jeff's a successful songwriter because his music communicates. And I think he's very sensitive to what his audience is feeling and thinking, and he's a success at this. And so to my mind, joining a prominent rock band, which was not on my agenda at the time, these considerations or these qualities that Cate just mentioned there that you quoted, were very much on my mind as well. So I'd have to just agree, and I'd have to say that it kind of comes from the top down, I suppose. I mean, Jeff is a probing and prolific artist, and we just fall in and do our best to make the music come to life and communicate.

Bill DeVille: When you have a band like Wilco, all you guys have separate things going on. Is it hard to agree on stuff and basically get along? Or does that come easy for you guys? 

Nels Cline: It's really easy. I think it's really easy. You know, I mean, Jeff is definitely the leader. And so, after being in my earlier life in a couple of what we might term "democratic bands," I think it's really important to have a leader of some sort. And it's, you know, I think we all came into Wilco World knowing that Jeff was the leader of the band. So it's not some big mystery.

Bill DeVille: Now, when you first joined Wilco in 2004, did you think it would be a gig that would last 19 years?

Nels Cline: Certainly not. Oh, I don't think that way, especially. I think a little more that way now that I'm old — I am the oldest guy in the band — so I don't have that much time left. But certainly, if you had pulled out the crystal ball, and said, "Flash forward 19 years Nels, and you'll still be playing with Wilco," and I would have been very, very surprised. That said, I've done a lot of things musically in my life for long stretches, so I'm a little weird that way. To speak to the 19 years with this current lineup, we get along obviously. I don't think I could do it otherwise, because I don't like drama, and I don't like disruption, and I'm pretty non confrontational for whatever reasons, we don't need to go into that, into my psychology. But we have a really good time playing together, and we have a good time on the road, and we know how to stay out of each other's way if somebody needs a little space. And there's just a ton of mutual respect. I really consider these gentlemen my brothers.

Bill DeVille: That's a good way of looking at it. So in the 19 years you've been in the band, is there anything that you haven't done yet that you'd like to do in the future with the band Wilco?

Nels Cline: Well, I don't know if it matters what I would like to do, but I would think it'd be incredibly fun to make some kind of really insane, almost prog record. You know, and I don't mean prog like with classical music flourishes, but I mean with suites, with worked-out instrumental stretches and weird drama and unexpected musical textures that would really, really freak people out. And then challenge the hell out of us too, you know? I mean, certainly Glenn [Kotche], for example, as wide palette and can play anything. Everybody just has a high degree of ability, and there are a million instruments in the Wilco loft. It would be interesting to see what we could do to try to make some kind of something like, you know, like Aphrodite's Child or something, or Patto or, you know, something really rocking, but at the same time really like the Yes album or something like really ambitious and maybe startling.

Bill DeVille: I think they need to bring back Glenn's commercial for Kohler sinks was it? I loved that! That was an awesome commercial.

Nels Cline: Faucets! 

Bill DeVille: Yeah.

Nels Cline: Yeah, yeah, that's a very good example of Glenn Kotche being able to do pretty much anything. Yeah, he's an octopus, and he's very well trained. And a bit of visionary, I might add.

Bill DeVille: Yeah. Well, here's a silly question: What do you think of the term "dad rock"?

Nels Cline: Oh, geez. I never had kids, Bill.

Bill DeVille: Yeah.

Nels Cline: And I am, well, you know, the elder of the band, but it's like, I think it's just such a weird, frustrating term when it's kind of supposed to be belittling or something, or in some way just trying to, like. cut you down to size.

Bill DeVille: But you guys un-belittled the term though, I think.

Nels Cline: Well, I guess so. I mean, I don't know. As somebody who never really fit into any particular genre very well, all kinds of, like, grab-bag terms just kind of irritate me, I guess. Even if I ended up using them myself, I kind of wince every once in a while, because they are seemingly necessary at times in order to like, explain something. But it's ultimately limiting and, I don't know, it's not like we're particularly fashionable or young, so maybe we are all dads, you know what I mean?

Bill DeVille: Yeah. Several Wilco songs are featured in the Hulu series The Bear. Now, did you watch the show?

Nels Cline: I did, actually. It's very rare for me to have seen any current TV show in its entirety, but I made it through the two seasons of The Bear and enjoyed it a lot, and I was really stunned with how much Wilco music was in it, even though I had been warned already. And I thought it was very effectively used also. And I love the show.

Bill DeVille: Now, did the band have a connection to any of the show's creators?

Nels Cline: Oh, not that I'm aware of. I mean, I'm pretty sure that Jeff had some familiarity with the gentlemen who are behind it; it's a very Chicago thing. But I don't have any Chicago, you know, karma going way back or anything like that; you know, I just have all my friends in Chicago, most of whom I've met since I've been in the band. And so sometimes these things are completely unknown to me, and they're a big surprise. You know, I just heard it being talked about. I don't recall anybody taking any meetings about it or anything, but maybe Jeff did. 

Bill DeVille: It feels very Chicago, and I'm one who was a line cook before I was doing this, and so I can relate to it, and I thought the show was great. And that was so cool to hear the Wilco songs in it, and they really, you know, had a lot of cool songs featured in the show, which was pretty awesome.

Nels Cline: Yeah, the musical direction, supervision, whatever, was really, really top notch. And I found the show extremely involving. And, you know, my wife and I, we're pretty into food, so things that are food related, they generally are of interest, so they kind of snagged me.

Bill DeVille: Yeah, I don't know; going from a sandwich shop to, you know, a five-star restaurant was kind of a unique turn of events, I thought, too.

Nels Cline: Yeah. And it's like, I'd hesitate to say cuisine, but that early iteration of Chicago cuisine with these — certainly not known to me, and not appealing — but I'm fascinated by all that kind of stuff, too. So I learned some things.

Bill DeVille: Something I want to know about you. You've been playing guitar forever. How did you, what first caused you to to pick up a guitar? What was the first thing ... ?

Nels Cline: Well, it was probably the Byrds. I'm from Los Angeles. I think I heard the Byrds in '65 or '66. My brother Alex, my identical twin brother, is also a musician. He became obsessed with the Rolling Stones. And then from then on, it became, you know, '60s, late '60s rock and roll, and for me, very importantly, and not related to picking up the guitar, I suppose, Indian classical music, so-called; Ravi Shankar specifically was the first artist that I heard. And so '60s psychedelia, the counterculture, Indian music, and the blues sort of fueled my desire to play electric guitar. And Jimi Hendrix really sort of drove it home for me. And that was when I decided to play guitar, if I could, for the rest of my life. And that was when I was 12.

Bill DeVille: So Jimi Hendrix is probably, is he your favorite all-time guitar player?

Nels Cline: Well, he certainly has the most powerful sway over my early life, and as such, he was the catalyst you know. But the list of guitarists I admire is in the hundreds.

Bill DeVille: It's Nels Cline, guitarist in the band Wilco, the new album is called Cousin. And it's due on the 29th of September. So nice chatting with you. Good luck to you and hope to see Wilco here in the Twin Cities very soon.

Nels Cline: Thank you, Bill. I love the Twin Cities, and I'm dying to get back there. So maybe I'll just talk to the powers that be and start trying to throw my weight around. 

Bill DeVille: Excellent! Good idea! All right. Cheers.

Nels Cline: All right. All the best, Bill. Thank you. Cheers.

Credits

Guest – Nels Cline of Wilco
Host – Bill DeVille
Producer – Derrick Stevens
Technical Director – Erik Stromstad
Graphics – Natalia Toledo
Digital Producer – Luke Taylor

External Links

Wilco – official site

Nels Cline – official site