Session and Interview: Joe Rainey in The Current studio
December 07, 2022
Earlier this year, powwow singer Joe Rainey, with producer Andrew Broder, released Niineta to widespread acclaim. The two mix orchestral and experimental electronic soundscapes with Rainey’s powerful voice.
They have spent the last several months touring the U.S. and Canada in promotion of the album, and they will continue performing live into the new year. Their next show in the Twin Cities is Jan. 26 at Cedar Cultural Center.
Rainey performed three tracks from Niineta at The Current. Local Show host Diane talked with Rainey, from Minneapolis and now based in Wisconsin, about the inspiration for this unique collaboration, as well as his aspirations to uplift and amplify Native culture.
Transcript edited for clarity and length.
This is Diane, host of The Local Show, sitting here with Joe Rainey, who just performed three songs in our studios and was amazing. Thank you so much for being here today.
Thank you for having me and Broder.
I've been to a few powwows in my lifetime. And I can think of going back to when I was in grade school — I lived in North Dakota — and attended a powwow in New Town, a reservation out there. And experiencing the culture firsthand — it still stays with me to this day. And so hearing your music really brings me back to that. Tell me a bit about your relationship with traditional Native music.
So I think that all begins here in the Twin Cities. As a young student of what powwow singing is, I think that was an early foundation for me to learn while I was living here in the Cities. I think you start from there, and you start to really focus on what it is you're learning, but then you're really not sure how far goes back. It was just something to do, or you've seen other older people or older kids doing it. So it's like you want to fall in line or go hang out with them for a little while. But that's what it started out as. I would say, myself, as a traditional song learner, I probably don't know as much as some other people. But I think when you talk about powwow and what powwow is, I still don't know as much as other people. But I like to experiment and sing with my collaborators or just do some things on the side that ended up becoming an album.
You've been a special guest vocalist with so many different artists, including but not limited to American superstars like Chance the Rapper, Justin Vernon, of course, the list goes on. And I imagine that working with them led to you creating your first solo record with Andrew Broder. I want to hear a little bit about that journey from going from that to this.
It all started at Eaux Claires Music Festival in Eau Claire, Wisconsin, the wonderful festival curated by Justin and his friends. I think conversations and relationships from there built what you see today. I think just along the lines of being sampled also led to collaborations in live settings. So with those handful of things in my mind or in a group of us, we all see what was kind of happening with the combination of powwow singing and I guess you could say modern electronic music. I think we all kind of seen it, but I think it was just someone's job to kind of maybe mold that into something a little bit more formal. But the whole process started with Eaux Claires Music Festival. And then it led to a conversation with Justin, going to his studio and actually messing around and kind of doing some of the vocal things that I did, then it kind of developed into what they are now.
I just need to put it out into the ether that we need to have another Eaux Claires or something like it, because I just feel like that was such a breeding ground for so much greatness.
The art was immaculate, yes. In many ways the art was there and present. And for us to be included alongside many great musicians and artists themselves, I think that was just like a commonplace thing that needed to happen
This record Niineta with Andrew Broder, who you just performed with in the studio today, so great. There are so many words I think of in my mind, but for one it is original, and it's kind of cutting-edge. There's not many artists doing what you two are doing, if at all. Why Broder?
I'm sure he probably doesn't know why yet either. He probably kind of thinks he knows why. Especially going around and performing this. Getting the reaction that we've had, I think we're both kind of just sitting there like, "Damn, now what did we do?" The reason I picked Broder was I mentioned Eaux Claires Music Festival, there was a time where we were helping him out with his set. And there was just a moment there where one of the dancers that was with us took the chance to just go dance with what Broder was mixing at the time. And it was just so seamless of a transition to where my brother Reuben, who gets mentioned on almost everything I do now, so, what's up, Reuben. He started dancing. And if you ripped Broder's music and we started singing, it would look the same. That moment stayed in my mind for a while. I'm not sure what it was doing in my mind for that long, but having the time to sit down and kind of think about all these different samples that I've done, all these different collaborations that we've done on stage — maybe that did have a different platform that needed to be set. I didn't think that I was the one to do it. I was hoping that maybe there would be some help. But Broder, I just knew he would bring that noise that I wanted. And I knew that he was part of (Marijuana) Deathsquads just like I am now. So I think I wanted it to be Minneapolis noisy with some powwow stuff that if you've been with Deathsquad shows or you randomly see me pop up with Deathsquads, I basically did what I did there with a little bit more controlled noise on my own. So, I think I was just channeling that on my own.
How has touring been? Y'all have been active. What is it like performing live to people?
I think hitting 'em live is still settling in with us. We don't know what we have done until maybe this week. So, we just got done with three cities last week, but we hit ‘em in the face pretty hard, even in an art gallery. We let them have it. We are aware of our surroundings, like when to drop back and do things. But I think once we start performing it, and we're interchanging samples, I think that's when we really started to get in a groove. So I think performing it for people is everything that they probably expected and more. Because that's like the reaction we've been getting after every show, which was like, "Wow, I thought I knew what I was getting into listening to the album, but in-person is different."
It is. I saw the performance at 7th Street Entry, the release show, and you're completely engulfed in the sound. And then to see you sing the way you do — it comes from your soul, basically. And then to see Broder working magic ... It's really cool to witness and watch live. And you're right, it belongs in a live setting. So it's cool to see that y'all are touring and doing all this. Where does channeling that come from?
My wife asked me the same thing. She basically asked me what am I thinking while I'm on stage. Our last show was in Madison last week. Not our last show, but the last one that we did ... it was right before the huge vote in Wisconsin that turned out mostly okay for the governor race. But as we all know, it didn't shake out the way we wanted it to. I felt like we failed. I felt like I should have sang harder… because we were right down the block from the Capitol. And I just want to channel all those things that I feel living in Wisconsin, being an Indigenous person living in Wisconsin feeling the systematic things that happened to Natives in Wisconsin. It's really sad. Coming from the Twin Cities — I'm not like a Twin Cities Native snob or nothing like that, it's just you see once you move there how things are in your face. So when I'm singing or I'm thinking of where I'm at or something happened, Iike keyboard gets lost in the airplane, we still had a show to do. And my voice carried really well in there. It was really easy to sing, but that was like the toughest I ever sang because I just felt like there is stuff built up inside. There is a release point performing it live, for sure. And I felt that like in a few times where Broder is even like, “Damn.” I'm like, yeah, that was just some stuff coming out. And it's just the way it happens. And that's a new part of performing, to me, because I'm used to sitting in a circle with guys. And I have to have Broder or someone in my peripheral to kind of feel like I'm not by myself, because putting this out was kind of different for me. But performing it and having it be welcomed by everyone, I think that really kind of erased all that lonesomeness.
Music definitely has the power to raise awareness and bring in activism. What would you like to see come of this with some of the activism that is intertwined in your music?
Treaty rights. I think treaty rights is a huge thing, especially in Wisconsin, hunting and fishing treaty rights. But just even living here, just having the space to create, having the space to make art, having the space to express ourselves artistically. I think that will lead to a lot more problem-solving within a community if we all have that space to create art, whatever that is. I think there's just so much Indigenous artists out there that don't have that space to create. And there's lots of categories if you want to break down Indigenous arts, we can break them down all we want. It's regular things to us. But I think we have to really recognize what we do as being art, and we have to take care of it as such — curate throughout time, start to think about how long we've withstood so many things, have gone through so many traumas. And making this album I get to express some of that trauma. I also get to express the other side of it. And really want to put on for Twin Cities and Minneapolis, number one.
Well, your voice is just so beautiful.
Thank you.
You have an interesting setup — using cassette tapes rolling while you play. And then Andrew is playing live piano and then keyboards and then some backing tracks. Tell me a bit about this crazy, weird setup y'all got going on for performing live.
I think it just came about by rehearsing the album together. I think we kind of were starting to see spots where I could actually live sample myself. We maybe didn't know right away what that could be. We're thinking of hey, maybe I can loop stuff or whatever. But then why don't you just use the straight-up tapes that you have. And that will kind of lead to you learning how to cut or do certain things on the recorder that I have. It has speed, up-down, even slow it down more if you want. But those are all from my archive. Those are all from recordings that I've done. Most of them are actually from the last couple of years and this year. So I still do record in tape although I do record in digital. But that came about by just thinking about how we can perform this live, and how we can translate the samples that you hear in the album to live settings. (With) Broder, you can just be like, okay, here's that sample, here it comes, and then there it goes. I could do it live and then just pull certain stuff that I have. Or there's some tapes that I have that mix just for the show. There's like two minutes on one side and the other side is blank, but it's all for the show. So I go through and I pick out which song I want to do. Usually, where we're going, I pick a drum group from the area ... North Carolina, I bust out my bros from North Carolina. We went to Iowa, a couple of my singing bros from Iowa came in, they noticed their drum group in the show. So I really am thinking about what I'm playing. Most of what I'm playing is some deceased powwow family members that I've had. So that's another way I can pay tribute live is to play some of the songs that they've made or that have them singing themselves. So that's another aspect of the actual tape playing during the show is me paying homage.
So, even before you started working with Broder, you had a lot of recordings that you had via cassette tape?
Yep.
Cool.
There's just tons of other people out there who are way cooler. I'm not just like a regular thing, I'm saying there are people who have the stash and who have multiple boxes of tapes. So that's something that I'm interested in right now. Making music and collaborating, that's wonderful. But first and foremost, I'm a diehard archivist.
I love it with cassette tapes, because it's kind of an outdated form of technology. Yet you're using this outdated technology to make new cutting-edge music, which I find really cool. And it gives a certain aesthetic to the music that works really well.
I appreciate all the kind words from everyone about the tapes. That really just kind of happened just like the album did. But it's been working great. And from here on out, we'll start to add a lot more tapes and stuff like that.
You're a dad and a husband? How's balancing the work life?
Yeah, well, I have a day job too. I work HVAC, and just having an understanding boss, owners and co-workers, that helps. But my wife is like my biggest supporter, along with my children, all five of them. I made this for them. I think they helped me pull the trigger on releasing this. Because I just wanted something for them to hear forever. So that's basically why I released it and just let go of any negative thoughts or what people would think. But I made this for my family, and let it go for my family. And, yeah, they love it. They're my biggest supporters. And, yeah, I have to go places without my wife sometimes. I've been doing good so far. She holds me up. But she's a huge, huge part of my life. And I love my family. And I did this for them most importantly.
Beautiful. What do you got coming up, you and Broder? New singles?
Before the end of the year, we have some things dropping. Before you know it, end of the year. So it's not even close to the end, it is like before you know it end of the year, got some stuff dropping. We've had some people come forward that would want to see where this can go. And we're happy with that. And they might have an idea or two to help me with my archive. So yeah, some good things are already happening before the end of the year. But next year, we'll be already heading out and doing things next year. And so yeah, who knows when, but I'm enjoying performing this for people now. And to really let them have it sonically in person, because that's how I am.
Thanks so much, Joe Rainey for being here. It's been a pleasure hosting you in the studio at The Current. Anything else you'd like to add?
No, just thank you for including and holding space for Indigenous artists on The Current. And I hope that continues in the future, because there's more than just a tape-playing Viking fan living in Green Bay that has something to say, but there's a lot more Indigenous artists out there. And thank you for including me here in Indigenous Heritage Month. Appreciate it.
