Los Angeles band MUNA, now signed to Phoebe Bridgers' label Saddest Factory Records, recently visited The Current studio to play acoustic versions of songs from their new self-titled album and to talk with host Jade.

Watch or listen to the session above, and read a transcript below.

Interview transcript

Edited for time and clarity.

Jade: Hey. It's Jade, and we're back with another Current session. And today we are joined by Muna. Thank you all so much for coming and joining us today.

Katie Gavin: Thank you for having us.

Jade: It's so great. And you guys came in very early. Again, thank you for doing that. And I was listening to the new album and kind of thinking about how the pandemic has changed so much of how musicians play music, how we come at it, and the idea of pre and post. And I think there's so many artists that had to reinvent themselves or like reintroduce themselves to an audience because your self-titled album is out now. It's not a debut record by any means, but it feels like a re-introduction from you. And so I guess, and you know it does create a very Muna pre and Muna now. And I just I was curious how you guys came out of the pandemic and with that idea of the opportunity almost to be something totally different. How did you approach that?

Katie Gavin: The first thing that comes up for me is that I think we had an opportunity in the pandemic to just slow down and really think about if we wanted to keep doing this. Like we really had an opportunity actually to slow to a complete stop because we got we got dropped by our former label RCA during the pandemic. And we also like even before that happened, we were having like really hard conversations about what would allow us to all feel fulfilled as we continue this project. It's really like a marriage like we've been together for coming up on a decade.

Jade: Congratulations.

Katie Gavin: And so you have to sometimes have those hard conversations and have moments of reflection of what would make it worth it for me to keep going. And honestly we still do that. But I think that maybe it was those moments of hard conversations and reflection that allowed us to kind of turn a new page. And also I would say that the first two records allowed us to do a lot of processing and just grow as individuals, and that has led us to this new era.

Jade: So what was that a heated conversation, I imagine, or maybe sad or joyful conversation, where you guys were like, no, we're going to do this. Like what was sort of the thing that made you say, we want to keep going.

Naomi McPherson: I feel like we're all pretty we've gotten pretty good at having very like, I hesitate to say mature, but that is the word that comes to mind, like measured sort of like therapist conversations. Like I'm feeling this and that and then when you said that it made me feel this way and then whatever. So I don't think the conversations ever got heated necessarily but yeah I think I don't know. We were just in the process of evaluating how we felt about what we were doing even before we got dropped, and I think when we got dropped it reinvigorated us to be like well now we can just do whatever we want. So the pressure's off a little bit and it made it a little bit easier.

I think we were feeling like pre-pandemic if we had continued down the direction that we were going in, that we would have maybe ended up making music that we didn't like. And that was I think part of the source of the tension not even between us the three of us, but just like the tension between us, and the music, and our job, and just trying to make sure we feel artistically connected to what we were doing and yeah. I don't know if that's an answer to your question. More just an insight, but yeah. 

Jade: Well, let's go back nearly a decade. What was the thing that brought you all together. What was how did you all meet and form this musical connection? 

Josette Maskin: We all met in college. Katie transferred to USC my freshman year, and they're both a year older than me. And Katie's major was my major but her minor was Naomi's major and we just all met in different classes. And Katie introduced me to Naomi. And I think the thing that like made us feel drawn to each other was like this kind of like otherness and a vast sea of frat like college and we're just like these weird, not weird, cool I would say actually, like, queer kids. And I don't know I think we felt like seen by each other and just kind of like as soon as I found out Naomi played guitar, I was like, “Oh, why don't we play together?” And Katie and I had already been in music classes together and had played together before. So we just decided to jam. And then they're both Capricorns so as soon as we decided to jam, actually, work started. And work has never ended, I think I would say since.

Jade: I like that astrologically, it works out. It's accurate.

Katie Gavin: Yeah, it's real.

Jade: So your voices, when they come together, when you listen to some of the recorded music. It's so fun and kind of poppy, and as one of my coworker's said, a real bop, that you sort of don't hear how beautiful your harmonies are. And I think this was a really nice chance to hear it stripped down totally so to be able to hear that. And I always find the moment when people connect on their voices actually sounding good. Because you could have been like, "Oh, cool you play guitar? I want to be in a band with you," and then you get in the room and you're like, "Oh, like this isn't gelling together."

Josette Maskin: Yeah.

Jade: So what was it like when you guys were like, "Oh, maybe we have something here."

Naomi McPherson: That's such a good question. I think we all have very different, this is a bit nerdy, but I think we all have just very different like style and taste in terms of what we like to play and sing. I think in that way, the difference sort of allows it to gel a little bit more. In terms of singing, I think we have had to work on the blend for sure. But yeah I think we all just we see eye to eye on a lot of canon like artists for us in the band of like we can all agree on liking this. But we all have different taste and I think different experiences with music that allow us to bring a little bit of something different to the table. So we're all like I don't know, it's very it feels very complementary like I can't play what Jo plays on the guitar, and I can't write the way Katie writes and/or play the way she plays. So we just all do our own thing. And I think it is a nice balance. We respect each other's tastes.

Katie Gavin: And I do feel like when we realized that we like had a little something going on was kind of early on like when we started playing together. Because like literally from our first jam session, I took that Ableton session and like wrote a pop song over it and was like this could be like something. And I think that that's actually what we returned to over the pandemic when it's like because in college like no one was asking us to be a band, no one was like "Where is the record?" We just felt like we have something here. And so it was really cyclical of just being like it is meaningful when you find a connection with other people. To be in a band is just a really special thing. And you can't control that. If it works with other people or if it doesn't. And you do have to work to keep it going. But the initial, like we work together, like that's just a gift.

Jade: So what was the one artist that you all agreed on? 

Josette Maskin: I mean, there's too many actually. Katie and I...

Katie Gavin: We had a moment.

Josette Maskin: We were drunk as a skunk.

Katie Gavin: We were drunkie as skunkies.

Josette Maskin: Drunk as skunks. Now sober as...

Katie Gavin: October.

Josette Maskin: You know that old phrase.

Naomi McPherson: This is kind of where the writing comes in. 

Josette Maskin: Yeah, it's actually how the songs come about. We were drunk at a party, and we were talking about Fiona Apple. And we're like, "What's your favorite Fiona Apple song?" And Katie said "Not About Love" and I think I decided to fall on the floor.

Katie Gavin: Yeah, you did.

Josette Maskin: With enthusiasm.  So charming in that way. But I mean like there's so many like we just have I think that's something that's funny is like we do all have very similar taste in certain ways. I mean, there's a few things that we'll like not disagree on but I'm like that's cool for you.

Katie Gavin: I was charmed. Yeah but you can hear influences like where they come together in certain ways like we're all like big into Frou Frou and Imogen Heap. 

Naomi McPherson: But even from the album that we were talking about that we connected on the Frou Frou album, we all liked different songs. Know what I mean? Like that is that's our style, I feel like. 

Katie Gavin: Like yeah totally.   Yeah. And then we also I mean there was a big phase, there was a big Peter Gabriel phase. 

Josette Maskin: I mean always.

Naomi McPherson: Life is a Peter Gabriel phase, right?

Katie Gavin: Yeah. Really anything that Daniel Lanois worked on too, like we were-- Yeah. And it's always been very fun to show each other music that's a big part of staying inspired for us as a band.

Naomi McPherson: Yeah.

Jade: Yeah. And coming together. I just like that idea of the pandemic being such a time to reevaluate.

Katie Gavin: Yeah,

Jade: Decide if you love something anymore or not, and then-- 

Josette Maskin: Or someone.

Jade: Yeah. All the bubbles have now burst. Sorry, if you were in a couple during the pandemic it's pretty much over now for everybody. [LAUGHS] But no, the band-- sorry. No, I'm kidding. You're in a beautiful couple. It's gorgeous. No, but that idea of deciding and making that decision and then finding somebody who really believes in you, because now you guys are on Saddest Factory.

Katie Gavin: Yeah.

Jade: And I'm curious, because it is such a new Indie label and run by a musician who's doing quite well for herself, do you feel like that's a different energy than-- obviously it's very different from RCA, but what is the difference having somebody who is a fellow musician kind of running the show?

Josette Maskin: I mean, I think Phoebe [Bridgers] is just kind of a marketing genius if I'm being real. I think there's just like a creative element to being on an Indie that we found to be like part of the decision-making process for us that we found to be really attractive. It's like she knows how to make-- like with even this, we got given some like Saddest Factory merch and we all have sweatpants that say "IBS, I believe in Saddest Factory." And it's just like things-- I know that's so silly to say, but it's just like having someone who is helping you figure out a way to communicate like who you are to the masses and someone who just like very inspired in that way I think was super charming.

Naomi McPherson: I think it speaks to our generation too, right? Like, I think even just as much as it is about her being a musician, it's about we are living through the same zeitgeist. We're very close in age. Like we have a lot of the same references. I think, I mean, for Phoebe, who is such a brilliant songwriter and makes such devastating music, so much of her like presence as a person is so funny and like about having a laugh and doing things just because they amuse you and in finding creative ways to express your sense of humor. And I think that's important to us, too.

And I think that's important to us too. Like, I don't know, maybe we have a bit of triplet vibes that feel a little insular sometimes, but I think at the same time, like I don't know, we like to have a laugh and just be goofy together. And I don't think that there was like an integrated place for that in our former situation. And it's quite possibly just due to like an intergenerational sort of lack of understanding that can happen when you get into these more corporate environments. Yeah.

Yeah. I would say one of the other differences that I think we're still like getting used to is I don't think we realized-- like we were used to getting at a major like creative feedback on like an album that like could be critical. And it's really interesting-- like indies, that's not as common. You just have the freedom to like, you just make it and then they're going to say, "OK, great, we'll put it out." And she really just wants us to have free rein. And I think initially that was kind of freaky for us. We were like, "Aren't you going to tell us that like half of these songs aren't good enough? Or what's the deal?" Like so it's been interesting to kind of live through like, I don't know, relearning to just trust like our own stamp of approval more than anything else. 

Josette Maskin: Yeah.

Jade: Yeah. That's one of the beautiful things about independent labels and giving the artists more control. I think it's because when you think of like the heyday of rock and roll, the heyday of music, it's like there was such freedom for people to really like express themselves as who they were. And then things became really like, "This is a business, this is your job." And now it does feel very much like there is a movement in music to get back to having fun and enjoying what you're doing. And I know it is a bit of a grind and it is waking up every day and doing the job — thank you again for being here. [LAUGHS] But there is that thing of making sure that you are having fun. And I think having people who believe in you is a part of that.

Josette Maskin: Yeah.

Jade: And with that idea of the grind, you guys have been on tour for a while now. And I saw you at South by Southwest earlier this year at like 2 a.m. and you guys were like high, high energy. It was really, really one of the weirdest South by Southwest I've ever been at, but it was great to see that performance. And this is kind of a weird transition year as far as like being back on the road. Do you guys remember the first show that you played back on the road? What did it feel like to be kind of doing that again?

Josette Maskin: I think we're still getting used to it. I mean, like even though we did our first show, I think our first shows were with Phoebe. And they were opening-- 

Naomi McPherson: And it was literally the day "Silk" lauched.  

Josette Maskin: Yeah. It was the day that "Silk" came out.  

Naomi McPherson: Or the day after. 

Josette Maskin: The thing that, is, I think that day in particular, I was like, "Oh, so this feeling in my body, I forgot that I actually needed this to be a part of my life." But I think that we're honestly, if I'm being completely frank, we're still adjusting to like playing. We just started playing headline shows again and we didn't know how grueling it is. Like we really, when we play a set, we put our entire souls into playing the set. And so we still are getting used to it and also like negotiating like, how is my body feeling? Like how is my mental health? Like what do I need to do to take care of myself? And, I don't know, we're still on a road of discovering like how do we integrate like playing these songs and making it sustainable for hopefully touring this record for a minute. Yeah.

Katie Gavin: Yeah.

Jade: Yeah. It can be grueling on the body. I'm curious would you guys, if you could, would you be like late-stage Beatles: "We only want to be in the studio, we want to make the most insane music" and like really get in there, or are you more like "We want to be on the road, we want to be on stage"?

Josette Maskin: It might be different for each of us.

Katie Gavin: Yeah. Today I'm feeling like I would like to be in the studio in a cave, please. But I don't know, I think it's actually a spectrum. If I had to guess, you're late-stage Beatles. You like being on the road.

Josette Maskin: I like-- I don't love like the act of touring.

Naomi McPherson: You don't love the road lifestyle, but you like playing shows.

Josette Maskin: I like playing a show. Like I do have the need to like break a glass over my head, you know what I mean?

Jade: Very Iggy Pop. Just roll around in the glass, yeah.

Josette Maskin: But I would like it to like be, like, right next to my house. That would be the ideal. 

Katie Gavin: We've been like so lucky in that we haven't had like really exponential shifts in our career that have required us to adjust in a way that we're not capable of like overnight. We've kind of been able to grow into it. Touring initially was a really scary thing for me. And I'm grateful that I like had time to adjust. And I think that we just-- this is just another change. Like we're kind of used to being like the opening band and the opening slot. And like that has its own-- you get comfortable being like, "I'm cool with being not the one that everyone's expecting something from." Or "I'm cool with playing like the half hour set" versus like being a headliner, its own adjustment. And I think that just as sensitive little babies and also as like queer people and people of marginalized genders and different experiences in life, it's like it's just normal that we have to kind of adjust to like, our lives and our careers getting bigger, and just being like, yeah, we are up for this and we can do this even though sometimes it feels like, I don't know. You know what I mean? 

Jade: Yeah. And now you guys are doing it. And the tour is going to continue. So thank you very much for stopping in today. Muna, the self-titled album is out now. You can pick it up and listen to it over and over again, or you can enjoy their session with some really, really beautiful acoustic performances. And Muna, thank you all so much for coming in.

Josette Maskin: Thank you.

Katie Gavin: Thank you.

Naomi McPherson: Thank you for having us.

Jade: It's Jade with The Current. Thank you for checking out another Current session and thank you very much to today's video crew, which is Erik Stromstad and Thor Cramer Bornemann. Eric Romani is our engineer and Derrick Stevens is our producer today. Thanks. See you next time.

Video Segments

00:00 “Anything But Me”
04:10 “Kind of Girl”
08:19 “Silk Chiffon”
11:47 Interview with host Jade

Band members

Catherine "Katie" Gavin
Naomi McPherson
Josette Maskin

Credits

Host – Jade
Guests – MUNA
Producer – Derrick Stevens
Technical Director – Erik Stromstad
Camera Operators – Erik Stromstad, Thor Cramer Bornemann
Audio – Eric Xu Romani
Video Editor – Evan Clark
Digital Producer – Luke Taylor

External Link

MUNA - official site