After releasing A Legacy of Rentals — his fifth solo album — in May of this year, Craig Finn is now on tour in support of the record. His first show took place at the Turf Club in St. Paul on June 28, and on that day, Finn and his band The Uptown Controllers visited The Current studio for a session hosted by Ayisha Jaffer. Listen to the full session above and read a transcript below.

Interview Transcript

Edited for clarity.

Ayisha Jaffer: Hi, I'm Ayisha Jaffer, the evening host here on The Current. And I'm here with Craig Finn.

Craig Finn: Hey, thanks for having me.

Ayisha Jaffer: Thank you for joining me. So you're on the road now in the States, and then you're going to Europe. How does it all feel? Just, how does that feel?

Craig Finn: It feels, I mean, it feels great to be out here. And this is the first day, the first show with the Uptown Controllers since I've had this record out. So that feels like a monumental day. We've been doing Hold Steady gigs throughout the year, but after staying home for quite a bit, it feels like each one, you know, you don't take them for granted. That's for sure. I mean, A Legacy of Rentals was kind of a funny title to me, it made me laugh a little bit, because, for one, I do rent my apartment. And during the pandemic, a lot of my friends started buying things. And I was like, "Well, I guess I'm just a renter forever." But then expanding on it, that we kind of are still you know, our bodies are kind of rentals for our souls, you know? Our bodies are temporary; our souls, hopefully, are forever. So it was kind of a, you know, expanding on the rental theme all the way. And knowing that we might not always be here, and a lot of the songs are about that, are memorials, and deal with how we remember people and places that are no longer with us.

Ayisha Jaffer: Yeah, there's like a new appreciation, I feel like, for doing things, which you kind of touch on in your album, because A Legacy of Rentals, this is your fifth studio album as a solo record. I know you've done tons of albums, but the fifth of of your solo, and A Legacy of Rentals, the concept of it, you know, it's so fascinating. I like something you said about it, where — and you can correct me if I'm wrong — but about your soul is kind of in your bodies for this temporary time. Can you like expand on what that means? Well, and that idea I find so fascinating, it almost seems like a realization. And so I was wondering what is the catalyst of kind of like, talking about and addressing that idea of like how you remember a person or a place or even these major events in life?

Craig Finn: Yeah, I mean, well, I mean, this record was started— my partner, Angie, is a nurse. And when COVID started to happen, she started working directly with COVID patients at her hospital, and I had to move out, and I moved in with her sister and her sister's family. And I started I said, "Well, I better get to work, I'm going to start writing." And I started writing a lot. And one of the things I was writing about was remembering this, you know, momentous time in history that it seemed to be unfolding. And also right at the top of the pandemic, I lost a friend. And suddenly, and it was not necessarily COVID related, but because of the pandemic we weren't allowed to or we weren't able to have a memorial service. Or at least not for a while. And so I was kind of thinking like, how do I, you know, there's this, with this lack of closure, how do we? How do we remember people? How do like, how do these stories get passed down? I had a million great stories about my friend, Brian; how do we keep telling them? How do we keep his memory alive? And I think that directly and indirectly led to the songs that ended up on this record.

Ayisha Jaffer: Well, and then I was gonna say, like, I know that you are a storyteller, and you create these characters, you have these characters, these ongoing characters in the songs, but to me, and you could tell me if I'm wrong, again, because this is me just interpreting, but I felt like this album was a little more personal, like, usually there's like a space between, but I felt it was a little closer in this one.

Craig Finn: Well, John Gregory Dunne, I think, was the one that said the first character in any novel is the author. And I do think, you know, especially in the solo stuff, I'm able to be more vulnerable and probably more personal. The Hold Steady is such a, you know, the sound is so big, and I'm usually writing music to, you know, things that the other guys in the band give me. And they tend to be big stories, big; you know, people getting shot, people falling off the roof. And you know, with this stuff, it's a little smaller, both in sound, but also in scale of the story. So I think people can be doing a little more mundane things, and maybe things that more resemble my actual personal life.

Ayisha Jaffer: Right! And well, and then you also, sometimes you did the stylistic thing, which I know you've done in the past, but I felt like it was more in this record where you're kind of, you're singing and you're speaking. And as a storyteller, that goes, that kind of mends a couple of ideas and worlds, I guess, together. So what was that a conscious choice? And did that just kind of come naturally?

Craig Finn: Well, yeah. I mean, it comes naturally. But a couple of records ago, I did a song called "God in Chicago" that was kind of just a real spoken piece. And the producer kind of — I was trying to turn it into a real song, you know, or more of a singing song. And the producer said, "No, no, no. Just talk this one." And it was really effective, and we both really loved it. And I think people really reacted to it. And with this one, I really wanted to lean into that kind of storytelling, and I thought, I kind of got interested in that part where you're just at the edge of talking or singing. Because when you can talk, talk, talk, and then sing, it kind of takes off; like, the wheels of the plane are just getting off the runway. And there's really a beautiful moment there that I was kind of trying to play with. And also, we did sort of a new instrumentation on this record, and brought in a 14-piece string section. So I thought it would like kind of, the straight talking, but then with the grandiose strings, there's kind of this opportunity to kind of a Gone with the Wind, a real cinematic moment, you know?

Ayisha Jaffer: Yeah. And a lot of these songs are just so visual; like, "Birthdays" is the one that we're playing now. And I even even though that's not straight-talking singing, I feel like you still push that edge with that song.

Craig Finn: Yeah.

Ayisha Jaffer: And I feel like that is just a relatable song: you have this family member, you're maybe like the glue, it has become elastic, because you've missed, you know, the parents passing or those gatherings aren't happening. And that's something I feel like everyone can kind of attune to. And I'm just kind of curious, like in your specific ideation of it, like, what inspired that?

Craig Finn: Well, I think I was thinking a lot about, you know, when I'm talking about memory and memorial, but family seems to be another part of that. It's how we pass things down. There's family lore, there's, you know, family traditions and whatnot. And I was thinking about a family that maybe had gone less than nuclear — whatever, I don't know what you'd say — but had become a little frayed.

Ayisha Jaffer: Yeah.

Craig Finn: And how, you know, I'm really interested in this like, like, you know, our modern technology, if like Facebook or whatever, reaching out to people. I think there's a lot of ideas and stories of, "Hey, remember me?" You know, like, "We haven't talked in 12 years, but I'm here." And I've written a lot of songs in the past, say, five, six years that sort of start that about a kind of a long-distance reachout, both long distance in miles, but also maybe in years.

Ayisha Jaffer: I've had a few of those. Have you had a few?

Craig Finn: Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, like, you start touring around, and you know, people pop up. Yeah.

Ayisha Jaffer: That's my cousin! I actually, just as a side, like, I got citizenship in Luxembourg, because I found a lost cousin. So sometimes it can benefit you.

Craig Finn: Yeah, my brother-in-law just just did that in Austria.

Ayisha Jaffer: Wow! Oh, my goodness. Well, so another thing I wanted to talk about your first track as well, because you mentioned that it's kind of like a eulogy. And I think that's so interesting, when you're talking about memories, and remembrance, and this time, it makes more sense when you put it into context. But did you, obviously that's a conscious choice to choose a eulogy. But instead of a summary, it's a eulogy. And so I'm just kind of curious, like, you know, eulogy is kind of in a dark perspective. So we are what is meant by that?

Craig Finn: I mean, someone has to die to to make a eulogy, right? So that is, like, one of those very talky tracks that we were talking about, where it's very much a spoken thing. And I guess I was really inspired that, you know, the idea of a memorial, and that, everyone, you know, everyone, we all have original sin, we all have faults, etc. But, you know, when when we pass, like, everyone tries to bring up the best parts about us. And I wanted to write a story about someone who was probably a flawed character. But you know, it ends up with him saying, "Rachel did her best with the deal she'd been dealt. And that's, that's what I got for a eulogy." And I don't know, I felt it was a very beautiful sentiment, and I was really attracted to it. And it's probably my favorite song on the record still. I really enjoy that one. I feel like it's very strong. And it is like the summary and the eulogy all in one. And there's one line that I'm going to be a little silly with you that I love. So I'm going to read it, it is: "We map where we been by the scars on our skin." And I love that because when you meet people, sometimes you're like, "Where'd you get that? Where'd you get that? When'd you get that?" So I'm going to ask you: Do you have a scar that is on your map that you're willing to share? Well, this one I burned... I can't remember the, like there's a little burn there. What else? I don't know if I have any like really great scars. Maybe I haven't been careless enough in my life.

Ayisha Jaffer: I'm like, impressed. I've got this really big one right here. That's an Alaska one.

Craig Finn: Okay.

Ayisha Jaffer: I know you're going to Alaska, but don't worry! That was a very unique concept. I like to tell kids that it was bears.

So there was this other thing; as I was like listening to your record, I noticed that you use the term "like the fish tank"; the "fish tank" comes up, but it comes up in different contexts. Like it's not like you're only trapped in the fish tank. It's also like, there's other ways of interpreting that. But I imagine that's reflected into maybe what you were going through at the time.

Craig Finn: Yeah, I mean, I think the fish tank was sort of the idea of limited space and you know, like, having a past that you couldn't kind of get away from, you know? Like you keep swimming in his tank and you keep running, you know, it's an enclosed space. So you think you're in the ocean, but you just keep, you know, keep moving around. And I was thinking about that, about sort of relationships we never escape. Friendships that don't ever kind of resolve or go away. And that idea, again, sort of connected to memory and connected to our lives, you know, the things that we bring with us. And so the fish tank, I started playing with that, and it kept coming up and, and I kept saying, "Oh, I like it there too." So I think there's four different mentions of fish tanks in the record, and one came up very naturally. It talks about an actual fish tank, and then I started using it metaphorically.

Ayisha Jaffer: Yeah, I really, I loved that. I noticed that because I don't know, I draw to the aquatic and I also felt like fish tank and you think fishbowl, you're stuck in this thing. But I took it to a next level. And I like those hidden things, even if it's not meant to be hidden, but like within art, so it added to the whole experience.

Craig Finn: It's definitely one of those things that you hope people notice, you know? So thanks!

Ayisha Jaffer: I'm glad! Well, I wanted to also ask, I know, you're from here, and I might screw this name up: Edina.

Craig Finn: That's right.

Ayisha Jaffer: Yes.

Craig Finn: Welcome to Minneapolis!

Ayisha Jaffer: From Edina! And so, you know, being from here but also now living in New York, like, I always like to ask the question from artists who are from here, because this is, you know, so many great artists have come out of here, of course: Prince Lizzo. You. Do you think there's something about here, the scene here, that kind of fosters and supports talent that is different from other places?

Craig Finn: Yeah, I do. And I haven't been here for 22 years, almost 22 years. So it's, I think it's the same, you know? But I would say that when I was here, I felt like as a scene, more people went to shows in Minneapolis than in, you know, in anywhere else that I've gone that is the same size. Right? You know? And I think there's a couple reasons for that, and I think it one thing that really helps it is the institutions. I mean, First Avenue is 50 years old. The Current has been here for a long time now. It's a lot of other scenes, I feel like, you know, they have a club that's going for three years, then it closes, then they have nothing. And then they have something else that happens for a few years. But they don't have this kind of like structure that I think has really helped Minneapolis's music scene. And I just somehow, culturally, even by the time I was in high school, I felt like people had really, it had that reputation and people were proud of it.

Ayisha Jaffer: Yeah, that's the community, too, right? I'm learning that as I go. And I like hearing from people who have been a part of it, you know? Well, I've got two fun questions for you.

Craig Finn: All right.

Ayisha Jaffer: One, I need to know because I am a dog lover: Your namesake pup, Rosalita.

Craig Finn: Yeah.

Ayisha Jaffer: How's she doing?

Craig Finn: She's so cute. I got her five years ago, so I think she's turning... well, she's going to be 12 just next week. So that's a big one. I mean, roughly 12, I think, because she's an she's a rescue, but she's doing good. Summer is not her favorite time of year.

Ayisha Jaffer: Right.

Craig Finn: The heat and also, Fourth of July is definitely not her favorite holiday. So the fireworks start right about now, so she's probably going to have not her favorite month, but we'll, you know, we'll make it up to her with treats and good pats and stuff.

Ayisha Jaffer: She lives up to her Bruce Springsteen namesake?

Craig Finn: She absolutely. She is, you know... she can jump a little higher, she can. "Papa says she knows that I don't have any money." That's true, too.

Ayisha Jaffer: Fair. The other thing I wanted to ask you. So I heard that you actually, you try to write something every day, and you read most days. And so that just fosters my idea that of course, everybody has many layers of inspiration and creativity. Do you have another talent, another hidden talent or one that you'd want to share?

Craig Finn: Ooh! Anything that I'm particularly good at? I don't really have a hidden talent. I think I read a lot, but I will say that I used to say that I was proud to say I've never had a cavity. But then I had one just kind of recently so...

Ayisha Jaffer: I have twelve!

Craig Finn: Yeah, I mean, I'm almost 51 years old, so I thought that was a pretty good thing.

Ayisha Jaffer: Look, one is a huge achievement.

Craig Finn: One's not bad. Let's, yeah, well, I got a dentist a few weeks, so fingers crossed.

Ayisha Jaffer: Fair enough. Well, is there anything else you'd want our listeners to know before I let you go?

Craig Finn: No, just thanks. Thanks so much for having me.

Ayisha Jaffer: Thank you for being here. Craig Finn here with his fifth solo studio album A Legacy of Rentals on The Current.

Songs Performed
The Amarillo Kid
Birthdays
Due To Depart

Personnel
Craig Finn – vocals
Paul “Falcon" Valdez – drums
Patrick Doyle – guitar
Joseph Faught – bass
Nelson Devereaux – saxophone

External Link
Craig Finn - official site

Credits
Host – Ayisha Jaffer
Guest – Craig Finn
Technical director – Evan Clark
Producer – Derrick Stevens
Digital producer – Luke Taylor