Joining us from Los Angeles, Courtney Barnett plays four songs from her 2021 record "Things Take Time, Take Time". Barnett talks to The Current's Jill Riley about collaborating with Warpaint's Stella Mozgawa on the new record, balancing humor and earnesty in her writing, and her love for Joshua Tree, California.

Interview Transcript

Edited for clarity and length.

JILL RILEY: Hey, it's Jill Riley from The Current's Morning Show, bringing you another virtual session. We've had a lot of great ones lately, and that continues today. I always like to introduce her as one of our favorite favorite Australians when we play her music. We have a nice long history with playing this artist. She's played Rock The Garden twice. She's going to be back at our neck of the woods in the New Year at the Palace Theatre, and I'm talking about Courtney Barnett, who has a new record to talk about. Hi, Courtney. How's it going?

COURTNEY BARNETT: Hi, going good. Thanks for having me.

So where are you right now? I want to get an idea of where you are. I see some nice solar panels behind you. I see some nice trees. I see some nice red in the background. Where are you right now?

Yeah, it's beautiful. I'm in LA, I'm staying at a friend's place and I'm sitting on the balcony. Yeah, with all this beautiful garden around me it's really nice.

Well, the new record is called "Things Take Time, Take Time". We'll get into talking about the record and some of the new songs. I know that you're coming to the Palace Theatre in St. Paul, on January 22. So how about we get into--what are the performance videos here and then we'll chat some more. Upon first glance of this song title, I liked it before I even heard it. It's one of the songs we've been playing here on The Current, "Write A List of Things To Look Forward To". So if you could kind of help me set up the song here, before we go into the performance video, and we'll talk more on the other side of it. But I think it's just one of those things where it's like, at the end of the day, it just sounds like really great advice.

Yeah, I guess it was advice that was given to me by a friend just when I was going through a rough time and they suggested making a list of things in your life that you're looking forward to and I guess similar to things that you're grateful for and yeah, I was writing this song in late 2019, even though now it kind of takes on this new meaning during pandemic times, but I guess it was written before then. I feel like it's one of those songs that it's just appropriate anytime.

Yeah, and especially taking on a new meaning like you said with the pandemic. Well let's take a listen to it and we'll talk some more coming up, so "Write A List Of Things To Look Forward To," new music from Courtney Barnett.

[music: "Write A List of Things To Look Forward To" by Courtney Barnett]

So Courtney, if you could kind of take me back to when you started working on this record, because it was a few years ago that you released your second full length record, and it seems like you're always keeping busy with plenty of things, it was time to make a record. Can you take us to where you were at at the time? And when did you get started?

Yeah, I think my last album was out in 2018. I guess I kind of started writing loosely after that, but I think this album really started coming together in like late 2019. When I kind of dialed back touring a little bit, and started focusing on writing more. In early 2020 I went on a solo tour, and yeah, I feel like the album really started coming together in late 2019, early 2020. And then I went back to Australia, when COVID really kicked off and I went home. And then just had a very quiet, quiet year, like a lot of people. Spent a lot of time writing and working on this album.

So the world came to a stop, I mean, the music business came to a halt. And I think if there's anything that I've learned from talking to a number of artists, now we're kind of hearing what people were working on during the pandemic. I hate to say that, like, the pandemic made us all slow down, but it certainly did. Was that a blessing in disguise for you to be able to just stop and just be with this music?

Yeah, I think in a way, for sure. And maybe I was kind of trying my best as well to take the situations that were placed in front of me and find a way to make the most of them or not make the most of them, but just work with them and adapt in whatever way that I could. Because I think everyone everyone had to do that in their own ways. Yeah, I think it did kind of force this time of solitude for me, I spent a lot of that time alone. There's a lot of reflection time and a lot of just emotional work. Which yeah, I guess I probably would not have done otherwise. So I guess I'm grateful for that situation that was forced upon me in some way.

You mentioned spending a lot of time alone and reflecting--what's something that you feel like you learned about yourself at that time?

So much, so much stuff. I feel like I was just constantly learning. It was like life lessons and personal lessons. I guess a lot of it kind of ended up in the album, it's hard to know how to verbalize it. But I think it was a big lesson in patience and just kind of learning to sit with my thoughts and, I mean, I feel like that's an ongoing lesson in life to just kind of find this balance between everything. In between good thoughts and bad thoughts and work, and between work and life, and just everything I think is important to have that balance.

It's got to be a great thing for you as an artist to have an outlet. I mean, your outlet is making music and writing songs. It is work to reflect and to be alone and to learn to be alone. Did you ever get to a spot though where you're like, "Oh I'm starting to take things way too seriously." Because what I love about your songwriting is you're able to find humor in situations or like, take a clever twist on a situation. Did you find yourself at times struggling to do that? Or has that always been something that's a part of you?

Yeah, I think that's part of the process. Like, I probably write a lot of stuff that's very serious, very earnest. Yeah, definitely write through a lot of my depressive moments and then I read it back. And I guess, again, it's like finding that balance. For me, I think it's important to confront those things and think about them and write about them and, and deal with it, but then I think there's something in the process that is like, finding this balance. Like, even a song like "Write A List" is kind of--it sounds quite upbeat, and fun and happy. But I guess it does, yeah, it's like this balance between life and death. I think it's just, I don't know, finding some sort of middle ground and yeah, finding the humor in those things is important because I don't know, it just is. It takes away the seriousness of it.

You know what, I love your music videos. There's a particular style in your music videos, and I know we're going to get a performance video, but I just wanted to comment on the video I watched for "If I Don't Hear From You". When I started watching it, I went, "Hey, I recognize that place. I recognize those trees." Unless those trees exist somewhere in Australia or somewhere else in the world, I went, "I've been there! That looks like Joshua Tree." And that's where that was, right? You were in the desert for that video, right?

Yeah, I've been living out there for the last month just before this tour starts, so yeah, we organized to do that video out there. Yeah, I love it. I love it out there.

What was your kind of first introduction to that part of the country? Many years ago--I have this friend that used to work with at The Current, this friend from LA--so she grew up in LA. I think it was back in 2006 she brought me to Coachella. And she's like, "We're gonna stay in Joshua Tree," which it's a bit of a drive. But it was worth it, because like, when's the next time I'm going to get to LA or that that area of the country? And we stayed in this little like $30 a night kind of motel, you know what I mean? Where you open the back door, and it's just the desert, and it was great. So what was your introduction to Joshua Tree like? And why did it kind of impact you to where it's like, "Oh, I want to live here for a while."

Yeah, well, I think the first time I went there was when I did Coachella, and I don't remember the year it must have been 2014 or 15. And, yes, straightaway, I loved it. I just felt kind of peaceful out there, so over the years I've just gone back whenever I can in between tours and for little breaks. I've always just really enjoyed the quietness of it, I think.

It seems like one of those destination places for, you know, a lot of artists talk about that very thing--that there's a peaceful air to it. The more I read about the place, the more I made the connections with Gram Parsons, and how much he loved it and how he was really moved by that part of the country. And so it's cool to hear that throughout the generations that artists are continuing to have that similar experience.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, oh my God, there's so many, so many artists and musicians and just really interesting people out there for sure.

Well let's talk some more in a little bit here and we're going to get to a couple of your performance videos in a row, "Rae Street" which is one that we've been playing here on The Current and right here "If I Don't Hear From You," Courtney Barnett, virtual session here on The Current.

[music: "If I Don't Hear From You" by Courtney Barnett]

Courtney I feel like you titled this album just to trip me up as a radio host a little bit. When I gotta remember to do the extra take time, is there a specific point that you're trying to drive home with repeating it in that way?

I think that repetition just seemed to be a bit of a same on the album. And like, musically, sonically, I kind of enjoyed this kind of repetition. It kind of created this slightly kind of meditative feel. And the phrase, that album title just became this saying that I would turn around in my head, just repeating myself. So I imagine it's just that kind of repetition.

Well, "Rae Street" was the first song that we heard from the new record, and like I said a little bit earlier, I just love the style of your music videos. And this one in particular, and I wonder if the writing process for this song was similar to how the video plays out in that, you know, you're sort of just like, sitting and observing what's going on around you, like, on a street, and then you're playing all the various characters that could live in a neighborhood and all the things--almost like those typical things that happen in a neighborhood, or somebody is working on a project next door, somebody is walking their dog, I don't know, maybe somebody's patching the sidewalk, or whatever it may be, when did the writing for that song start? Or was it just an observation of the things around you?

Well, actually, that this song definitely started when I flew back from America in March 2020 and I moved into this little flat in Melbourne, and I had to home quarantine for two weeks. So I was kind of jet lagged and quarantining, and I would wake up at 5am and watch the sunrise and drink coffee and sit. There was these big, beautiful windows, and I would just kind of watch the street slowly come to life, you know, people walking to work--well, I guess work wasn't really happening. People were walking their dogs and just like going places. And I just, I don't know, I guess I was sitting there writing or drinking my coffee, playing guitar and just kind of observing the world around me and wondering what people were doing. You kind of create these laughs or create like stories for the people you see. But yeah, it was very kind of simple. Simple, just kind of watching the world happening around you.

When you would get into that routine, did you ever find yourself almost like, starting to get overly involved in what people were up to? Just imagining myself looking out the front window and like, "Huh, it looks like what's her name is 10 minutes late walking the dog today," or, "Gosh, the people across the street get a lot of packages. I wonder what they're getting." I would find myself almost like, using it for a little bit of entertainment or something. I don't know.

Yeah. Not like Rear Window style. But yeah, not so much. I was just watching the world around me. Not obsessive.

So what you're saying is, you're a less nosy neighbor than I am. Okay. I get it. All right. [both laugh] I'm talking with Courtney Barnett. The new record is "Things Take Time, Take Time," now I know that you had somebody play on the record with you--could you talk about who else plays on the on the album?

Yeah, so basically, the whole album was made with myself and Stella Mozgawa. We co-produced it and both played all the instruments and Stella's traditionally a drummer, but also can kind of play everything. So we both wrote the bass parts or we kind of just whoever had an idea threw something down, but Stella played a lot of keys and synth and piano--

What's the name of the band that she's in?

She plays in a band called Warpaint. I love Warpaint.

Yeah, and that's another opportunity is like, with these musicians, or people that you know, had some extra time, so why not take advantage of that time, to be able to work together on something. You talked about some of the things that she played on the record, but what else do you feel like having a collaborator, like, what did she bring to the record? Even as like, maybe just like her presence?

Yeah, I think I've been so lucky with everyone I've made music with, like, it's just such an individual thing, you know, such like their own personality, their own style, their musical style, their humor, just the energy, I think that everyone brings in is so important, so different. And I think, yes, Stella, I mean, she still is like a very optimistic and just like a good energy, a good creative energy, so I think sometimes when I get stuck on an idea, or stuck in the studio I can tend to spiral but she's just like, "Let's try it another way." And then just keep going, keep working and try different instrument. And so I think it was, really, it was just inspiring for me. Working with her and seeing how she works, and just experimenting so much with different sounds and different ideas and different approaches and instruments. Yeah, it was a really inspiring, creative process.

So you've got a tour coming up. I gotta think that you're really looking forward to getting out on the road and getting on stage in front of people. I mean, how much have you missed that?

Yeah, definitely. I mean, you know, it, it seems a little strange to be going back on tour. But yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to it, I think it'll just be really special, I think after not having played for a little while, and I've seen a few shows recently. And you can feel this different energy in the crowd, people are so grateful--I was so grateful to be seeing music again. And there's something so special about that collective experience, you know, watching, experiencing music as a group. So yeah, I think it will be really, really fun to play again.

You can add it to a list of the things you're looking forward to. And we're certainly looking forward to having you back in the Twin Cities. You know, you've got a lot of fans here in Minnesota, in the Twin Cities, and one more song "Before You Gotta Go," and before I let you go, if you could kind of just help me set this one up for The Current audience, just kind of a an overview of what this song meant to you or how it fits into the record.

This song, I think, is just about like, telling the people in your life they're important to you and the people that you love in your life, you know, what they mean to you. And just that idea of not going asleep angry or not leaving a disagreement kind of unresolved.

Courtney Barnett, thank you so much. Take care, ok?

Thank you.

Songs Played

00:00 Rae Street
06:49 Write A List of Things To Look Forward To
20:19 If I Don’t Hear From You
34:53 Before You Gotta Go

Credits

Host - Jill Riley
Guest - Courtney Barnett
Producers - Anna Weggel, Jesse Wiza
Technical Director - Eric Romani