On the 30th anniversary of Prince's Diamonds and Pearls album, drummer Michael Bland and keyboardist Tommy Barbarella of the New Power Generation join The Current's Sean McPherson to compare notes and to share memories of recording "Diamonds and Pearls," working with Prince, and being part of a great band and the lively Minneapolis music scene.

Interview Transcript

Edited for clarity.

SEAN McPHERSON: I'm joined by Michael Bland and Tommy Barbarella, illustrious members of the first incarnation of the New Power Generation. Gentlemen, thank you so much for being here today.

MICHAEL BLAND: Well, thanks for having us.

TOMMY BARBARELLA: My pleasure.

McPHERSON: We're talking about "Diamonds and Pearls," which years ago, which is a pretty incredible milestone for this record that you two were heavily involved in. There's certainly a lot of records in Prince's catalogue where there's a band with him, but they weren't in the studio. They weren't involved that much until the tour started. This is a different story. What are your favorite memories? I'll start with Michael: What's your favorite memories of the recording sessions for this album?

BLAND: I guess that my earliest memory was just that Sonny [T.] and Tommy and I were in a in a project, in a different project, that Prince was running. He had made a solo record with Margie Cox and we were going to be like, her backing band. And so I was basically doing double duty. I was already in Prince's band, and also in Margaret's band, and we were rehearsing at Paisley one day and Prince comes downstairs just as Sonny and Tommy and I were leaving, and he had this idea for a song. And so he's like, "Do you have a minute to help me work this out?" And we weren't in a particular hurry, we were just headed a downtown; I think we were going to eat and then maybe go down to Bunkers and … I think it was a Monday night. And so it was like, "Yeah, it's six o'clock; I mean, we don't have to be anywhere for a while." So we stayed long enough to work out the song, and then Prince was like, "Well, can we just record it quick before you guys leave?" So then we just moved the operation into Studio B and recorded it, and I think it was the first time that he recorded with the three of us together, with Tommy and Sonny and I, and it went quick. It was efficient, you know; he was very open to the creative energy that was around. And that song was "Diamonds and Pearls," actually. And it went so well, that um, he sent [laughs] his bodyguards down to Bunkers later on that night, and they [said] "Prince wants you guys to come back out to the studio once you guys are finished," and so we went right back out to Paisley Park and recorded a song called "Live for Love," which is the last song on the record. And so I guess before that, I had done a few sessions where it was just Prince and I, and he'd just play piano and just kind of tell me when the changes were coming and so on and so forth, but it was, it was still early in our recording relationship. But that was a that was a major move, because we also ended up recording quite a few songs on that record that were really like live performances in the studio: "Cream"; "Jughead"; "Diamonds and Pearls" we were just talking about; "Live 4 Love."

McPHERSON: And "Willing and Able," is that mainly live as well, or is that…?

BARBARELLA: "Willing and Able" was.

McPHERSON: Yeah.

BARBARELLA: Yeah.

BLAND: Actually, well…

BARBARELLA: I remember Kirk [Johnson] in the other booth in studio A.

McPHERSON: On the congas?

BARBARELLA: On the congas and yep, that was "Willing and Able."

BLAND: I don't know if we want to… (laughs) I don't know if I want to match which was which, but I have a different recollection.

BARBARELLA: Well, that's the interesting part that's why I wanted to do it with you because we all remember things differently.

BLAND: Yeah.

BARBARELLA: And that's what's crazy about the time with Prince: It was like so much happened every day, that, you know, you remember certain things. Memory is a funny thing. But then when you get around the other guys, it's like, "You remember this?" "No, but I remember this." Everyone remembers different things.

BLAND: Yeah. See, my memory of "Willing and Able," what I recall is recording the basic track for "Willing and Able," "Money Don't Matter 2 Night" and "Strollin'" on a particular evening in Tokyo at the Sony recording studios. It was at the end of the Nude tour. Japan was the last stop, and I had the stomach flu and I was trying to stay in my room until, you know, until like, the show started. But Prince got bored and booked the studio, and it was Levi [Seacer] and Prince and I in this little studio, recording the basics for that. What you're probably remembering, Tommy, is one of those instances where we recut something for the sake of — there were so many times where we went and re-recorded things, I think that you're probably remembering… well, no, that wouldn't have been the NBA thing we did?

BARBARELLA: No, because the part, the main guitar part on the song, that arpeggio, [sings] doo doo doo doo doo doo doo, that's me on a Korg T3. I remember the patch. It was like the nylon guitar patch.

BLAND: I believe you played it. I'm not questioning the fact that you—

BARBARELLA: I thought we were all there.

BLAND: I don't … that's what I'm saying is, I I remember, like, having anxiety about leaving my room. Because (laughs) I was trying to stay in a comfortable environment, because things were happening! I went over there, and it was like, you know, when you get sick, and you feel like you're bumping into yourself? Like it was full on, like, I was that sick, and tried to stay in my hotel room in Tokyo. And I think the same night that I cut the basic with Prince and Levi for "Willing and Able," "Strollin'," and "Money Don't Matter 2 Night," we also recorded a rough demo of a song called "Five Women" for Joe Cocker. Like it was one of these situations where it's like Prince just had these ideas. They kept coming. And I was trying to get out of there as quick as possible. And every time I hear "Willing and Able," I'm telling you, I have a tactile, a physical response. (laughs)

BARBARELLA: Some things you don't forget.

BLAND: Yes. And I'm not, again, I'm not saying this in the interest of dispute. What I'm saying is that maybe we were there and this got squeezed in somewhere in between the process like where you recorded on it. It's like, there was so much happening. So there's so much happening all the time, that it's, yeah, I think it would be impossible for any of us to remember 100% of what went down.

BARBARELLA: But do you remember the sessions in Studio A where you were in the drum room? Kirk had a percussion setup in the other iso room?

BLAND: Absolutely. Yes.

BARBARELLA:
Yeah.

BLAND: That happened all the time. I mean…

BARBARELLA: Right.

BLAND: Between Diamonds and Pearls and the [Love] Symbol album, that was the main setup from looking out from the iso booth for the drums, Levi was always sitting over here. Sonny was sitting on this side of the window from me. You were, I think you were always on like the like studio, like, left-hand side. Like that rig was set up. And Prince on piano often, but sometimes on guitar. And Kirk next door. And then I remember like even like "Jughead" was like, Rosie [Gaines] was in one of the the airlocks with a microphone. And like Tony [Mosley, aka Tony M.], Damon [Dickson] and Kirk were in another one. Like it was, that was like full-on live recording, you know, in an era where a lot of people had already given it up. They weren't recording like that anymore. You know?

McPHERSON: I have a question I want to point towards Tommy. Prince had already [static] by himself in the studio with nobody helping him, besides for an engineer. What do you think made him want to widen the circle and get, you know, somebody that percussion room and Rosie Gaines and all the money, all the headaches, all the scheduling that comes with that? What do you think prompted Prince to make this such an ensemble period in his career?

BARBARELLA: Well, I think two things. I think, one, he assembled this band, you know, he wanted, he made music all the time, so he had a band of folks who are always going to be around, who could play anything, you know? So I think more than anything, this, you know, this band was capable of actualizing his most complicated ideas. It's like, there was, there wasn't much he could throw at us that we couldn't actualize. And he loved that. So, you know, we were in town and we were always around, and it was, you know, so having that access was, that's what he wanted and it's what he needed. You know, and I think, you know, what, what we all brought to the table was, you know, there were things that he it, just widen his palette, so to speak of, of what what his his sound is, what he could do. And the other thing is, you know, I think he was always trying to recreate Sly and the Family Stone; he always wanted that mix that mixed-up band that was a great band but had the different elements, had the different voices, people coming from different places, and, you know, throwing it all together into the mix.

McPHERSON: You're with Purple Current and The Current, and I'm chatting with two esteemed members of New Power Generation, and also incredibly elite players in world history, but certainly in Minneapolis history as well. Coming up as musician, I was very [static], and the reputation of New Power Generation and a little bit of what you were just talking about Tommy, it does make me realize that you guys were top flight here, and remain top flight internationally. In a way, this is no knock on the Revolution, but you two have gotten different phone calls in your career as far as what you can bring, outside of talking about being able to play at the highest levels Prince could imagine. Now my question about that is: did… did that change? I was listening to an interview with you yesterday, Tommy, where you talked about adding the fusion turnaround to get back, I think, out of the bridge from "Diamonds and Pearls, ideas like that, churn them out before you gotta hit at Bunkers. I know Prince worked very fast. This question is for both of you: Do you think that having more cooks in the kitchen made it faster or slower?

BARBARELLA: I think definitely faster for him. I mean, someone dug up a Carmen Electra song the other day and shot it over to me, and like, remember this? And Steve Noonan, engineer, was like, "Did we record that in London?" Or… what was that, Olympia in London? Or at Paisley? Like, I don't remember, honestly. But I remember cutting about half that. I thought, again, who knows what's true? But I remember cutting half that record in like one day in Studio A, and we didn't know what it was or who was for, it was just tracks. But yeah, the speed that we could turn stuff out was… what was the question? Oh, too many cooks in the kitchen. It's like.

McPHERSON: Yeah.

BARBARELLA: Yeah, it was definitely efficient. Because, you know, we all also knew our place, you know? He was calling the shots, and if he didn't like your ideas, he wouldn't use them. And he would often send me into the studio after the fact because we would cut basics then he'd go in and use what he liked and replace what he didn't like or add stuff. But sometimes he would send me in to do that very same thing. He's like, "Go in and produce up this this track" that we just cut or maybe an old track. And you know, at the time, I was just like, "Holy shit, I can't believe this. He's trusting me to do this." And then the next day, it'd be like, "What would you think? Did you like that?" I remember one time it was that song, "Old Friends 4 Sale." And I was like, I've heard about this song because I think it was on the Black Album or something originally, but I was just, the song, the title, it was like, "Wow, I can't wait." I'd never heard the song. I just heard about it. And then he sends me into the studio to replay the piano part for it. And this is in my first year or two, and I was just like, "Holy crap. I can't believe this opportunity." I spent all night, you know, a million takes of that piano track. The next day, I couldn't wait; I'm like, "What'd ya think? What'd ya think?" He's like, "You played it too hard." And I was like, "Damn." And then after the fact, I was like, "Yeah, he was probably right." He was always right, you know? But uh…

BLAND: Yeah.

BARBARELLA: You know, it's like, he would, he would take what he wanted and, you know, because he could do anything you could do, but he was looking for something different you would bring.

McPHERSON: Michael, what's [static] live from that record, from "Diamonds and Pearls," when you guys hit the road? What became even more exciting to do in a live setting?

BLAND: Oh wow. Um, you know … it's difficult to explain the, like, the process, the transition from studio to live. I mean, we… sometimes it went the other way. So a lot of ideas were conceived while we were just jamming around, just knocking around things. So it's … I'm not sure honestly how to answer that question. Because it didn't just work the one way. Some things started in the studio, some things started onstage. Sometimes we just saw what happened and we be, it's just this, and you know, he'd go back and watch the videotape, like, "We gotta do something with that groove right there." You know? I think that's how "Rock and Roll is Alive!" happened. "And It Lives In Minneapolis." It was like, he was running a tie line from the soundstage to Studio A, and he caught a — he started talking to the audience — we were jamming on "Get Wild." And he started talking to the audience and got them saying, "Rock and roll is alive, and it lives in Minneapolis!" We look up, he's ready to cut the song, like, the next day. So it's, you know what I mean? It's… I wish I had a better answer for you.

BARBARELLA: I will say this, it's like, the longer we rehearsed something, even if it was a new song, the more it would evolve and change and get more complicated and more complex, like, you know, before the Diamond and Pearls tour, you know, by the time that tour happened, some of those songs we've been playing for a while, they were getting kind of old, so he would just keep adding parts. I remember, do you remember that chromatic rise to loop the chorus of "Diamonds and Pearls"?

BLAND: Oh, yeah.

BARBARELLA: And then Rosie would just soar, it was marvelous.

BLAND: Yeah, it's just, with that much talent in the room, there's so much you can do. And so many ways you can change things from, you know, from performance to performance, it just, and Prince had a very short sort of attention span.

BARBARELLA: Right.

BLAND: So we were always changing things up, moving things around.

McPHERSON: I love the quote, it was said that Prince said, "If I'm bored, they're bored." So, "If it's not moving me, I gotta make it interesting." I think that level of inventiveness paid off well throughout his career, but certainly, in this era, for sure. One of my favorite writers talking about Prince is a gentleman from New York named Miles Marshall Lewis, and he talks about Sign O' The Times kind of being the last record from Prince where he didn't directly engage with hip hop and how big hip hop and rap was becoming. And that after that point, there was, either it was a response involving rap or a response sort of eschewing rap, but that was in the conversation. As people who were in that album of Prince's that has some of the most rapping on it, how were you guys as an ensemble, and Prince in particular, relating to what was happening with hip hop and rap at that time?

BLAND: Wow, um, I think I was still, I was not, other than a handful of groups, I was not completely sold on hip hop as a movement or a thing. I mean, for me, it's spelled the, you know, the demise of my profession! Samplers, you know, electronic drums and whatnot, loops and all that. So I had I had a chip on my shoulder about it, you know, so ever since I saw the first, you know, the first guy ever saw, like, on a turntable, you know, rocking, rocking the whole room with, you know, and so I had beef with hip hop right away! (laughs) "They're trying to get rid of me!" But I think that it's, it's a lot easier to say what it was now than at the time that we were doing it, because we tried a lot of things that other people weren't trying at the time. In Prince's head somewhere, he went, "What if I had a band that sounded like, that sounded like hip hop, you know, with real instruments." And this is before The Roots, you know? I think that, you know, a lot of the stuff that we were trying to do was influenced by hip hop, definitely. I think Levi and Prince listened incessantly to what was going on industrially, and they'd, you know, bring it all in our direction, and we'd try to distill it into something more tangible; like, less DJ driven and more instrument driven. And you know, it's funny because I see online, people debating all the time about like, this particular period and Prince's music, you know, and some people liked it; other people didn't. You know.

And I know they're, you know, I've been speaking to [Paisley Park archivist] Mike Howe about the, the, you know, the the re-release of Diamonds and Pearls they're working on, and my first question was, "How do you think this stuff is going to age?" You know, I mean, it was recorded not in a vacuum but in a completely different, you know, it was a period different from any other period of Prince's canon, you know, let alone, like, "Well, what was it? What happened?" (laughs) at the time that we were doing it, you know. I think it's going to be interesting to see how they put it together, but I guess, ultimately, you know, whether somebody is rapping or singing, my job is the same anyway, you know? And I guess that's how I looked at it, other than just the fact that we were really there to just kind of, you know, not think of reasons why or why not. We were just there to get it done. So that was our general attitude; it was like, "Well, okay, Prince says study trap; like, really study how it drags and this and that," you know? Prince says, you know, "Go out to the Glam Slam, go sit in the DJ booth, go see what the dude is spinning." You know, a lot of that is just research; par for the course, so on and so forth. You know, and I had, there were records that I liked, you know, but yeah, generally, it was you just kind of tried to make sense of it all, you know, and the only way you know whether what you're doing is right or wrong is what Prince has to say about it. But yeah, "That's it, that's it!" Okay. Okay, I'm somewhere, I'm somewhere he approves of, so stay in that zone. And you know, do more of that. (laughs)

McPHERSON: Is that similar to your experience, Tommy? New textures from hip hop and trying to integrate them in on the keyboard?

BARBARELLA: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, these were, this was, well, Diamonds and Pearls era, since we're talking about that, that was the early days of using samples live. So this was before people were running Pro Tools, even before they were running tracks with it on a DAT tape. You know, we were doing everything live, we were triggering everything live, and so, "Daddy Pop," the first loop I guess Prince ever played with, was played with my, with this finger on our low F, and I had to hold it the whole time.

BLAND: Right, because I didn't have the technology to to run the loops back at my station yet. That came later.

BARBARELLA: Yeah. So, in "Daddy Pop," I literally… now, what was that loop? That was…

BLAND: That was "Rock Steady."

McPHERSON: Yeah, by Bernard Purdie.

BARBARELLA: Right.

BLAND: [Sings the groove] Just, you know…

BARBARELLA: Vicious! So I'm holding that loop with one finger. And then I put other samples nearby where I can hit with my other fingers, some other hits and stuff. And then with the other hand, I'm playing actual keyboard parts. And that kind of became a template for a lot of what we did at that time where I was covering a lot of ground, but um, you know, hitting samples and playing traditional keyboard parts. Yeah. And then as that evolved, by the end of my run, I was only playing samples! (laughs)

BLAND: Right? Clare Fischer, orchestra sound samples. And… (laughs)

BARBARELLA: The funniest was that day, what was it? Not "Get Wild," but it was one of those where it was like, we'd jam it forever. And like, "Break it down! Tommy on the one!" Boom! And I would play all my parts. My parts were samples of him playing bass, and playing guitar. We're all like, and then he'd be like, "Yeah, Tommy's funky! and I'm like, but— Yeah… …literally just triggering samples of [Prince] playing guitar and bass! And that, my friend, is when I was like, when we had started playing, doing the Greazy Meal thing, I'm like, "I don't want to play any samples in this band. I just want to play real keyboard parts," like, I'm only gonna play Rhodes, Clav…

BLAND: Sure!

BARBARELLA: …organ or Wurly, that's all I'm gonna do. And that's what I did. Yeah, that was the start of that hip-hop sample stuff.

BLAND: Yeah. What's funny is the smaller the band got, the smaller the band got, the more samples had to be added to cover the ground! I mean, basically, the way I looked at it, Morris was playing, like towards the end of the original run of the New Power Generation when it was just like the four of us and Mayte and Prince. Sonny, Tommy, Morris, me, Mayte, Prince. That group like "Gold Experience, "Come," like that band. There was so much technology going on. And program changes had to happen so quick that eventually… who was the company that made it? I think it was the MIDI remote control was made by Lexicon.

BARBARELLA: Yeah.

BLAND: And we all had these things because our programmers couldn't keep up with how fast things would change during the show.

BARBARELLA: We were pushing the technology to the brink.

BLAND: Yeah.

BARBARELLA: For sure.

BLAND: No sequencers. Sean, you know, now, and I will say this, and it's kind of a dig. But somebody in wardrobe went to work for Janet Jackson during that time, and came back — you know what story I'm talking about, Tommy?

BARBARELLA: Sounds familiar. Yep.

BLAND: I can't remember what her name was. But she was like, "I never knew how good you guys were." And I said, "What are you talking about?" And she said, "I just did a month with Janet Jackson." She said, "One day I decided to get down to wardrobe like an hour beforehand, to organize some things. And I heard the band start playing," like in you know, like soundcheck started. And she was like, she said to herself, "What are they doing here already?" And she said, she ran out to the auditorium, you know, and there was nobody on stage. It was just the tracks playing. And, you know, so like, I don't think I need to say much more about it, Sean, I'm just saying.

McPHERSON: You are tuned in to...

BLAND: She found out that day that we were live and Janet was Memorex, at least at that time!

McPHERSON: You are tuned in to Purple Current and The Current. I am really honored to be joined by Tommy Barbarella and Michael Bland. We've covered a lot of ground around "Diamonds and Pearls." And I want to talk about what you two were listening to before you started doing this. I was thinking a lot about your influence. And I don't mean Prince's influence. I mean, Michael Bland, and Tommy Barbarella's influence on my generation of Minnesota musicians. And I think about this very elite, gospel-informed, R&B aware, like, the multi-genre thing, and just absolutely virtuosic chops that you two did, and now, there's this, we can study you two. But who did you guys study? Like, when you were trying to be the baddest band on earth, which you became, who were you studying to do that?

BLAND: Well, to me, it's like you didn't have to really even look that far. You're in Minneapolis. I mean, I remember the first day that I met Tommy, he was at, it was at the Fine Line. Your hair was short, and you had some dap shoes on, and a woman with you. Yeah, a woman and makeup. And you guys, you and Sonny were playing with the Steeles. That's what happened. And I think that Prince also picked up on this synergy that was going on, you know, within the city. I mean, prior to then, I mean, the Revolution was mostly people from Minneapolis, but that middle band, the Lovesexy band, the Sign O' The Times band, almost all those people were from somewhere else. I mean Levi and Sheila [E.] were from California. I think Cat [Glover] was from Chicago. Boni Boyer was from like San Francisco or Oakland. You know, so really, I think Prince just kind of kept, after the Lovesexy tour, and he came home, he just kept hanging around, going to see, you know, what was going on in the city.

BARBARELLA: Well the Bunkers, the Bunkers gigs started in…

BLAND: Bunkers was part of that.

BARBARELLA: Eighty-eight, right?

BLAND: Yeah, well, '87, technically, but yeah, he came right in there and was like, "Oh, okay, you, you, you, not you," and did the same with the Steeles, took Tommy and Sonny right out of the Steeles: rat-tat-tat-tat! "I'll take those two dudes; now I've got something!" You know. Like, I guess that's the funny part is that we, I don't want to say that we were our own contemporaries, but I think that we already knew each other and had been working together before we met him.

McPHERSON: So you were listening to people down the street and you were figuring out how to put together and had a lot of great company. Tommy, was that kind of your world, too, or were you had more of your head in the in records from other scenes etc.?

BARBARELLA: Well, I know that the question you actually… it's interesting the way Michael answered it because what you're obviously asking is: Who are your influences? Who did you listen to? And I can answer that, too, but, you know, what Michael said is interesting because it's like you ask anyone now, and it's like, "Who is your influence?" and it's who they watch on YouTube or you know, digging. But in our era, you know, live music was all around us, so, and you were inspired by… you're much more inspired by seeing someone up close in person live with sweat running down their face and having your ears just blasted than anything you'll ever see on YouTube. So we're lucky. We grew up in that era. You know, first time I sat in with the combo, got my ass handed to me, it was like the greatest night of my life! You know, it was like, it was brutal; you know, that's how we came up: it was like you had to cut your teeth with your elders who knew so much and were so good, and that's what made you work really hard, it was like…

McPHERSON: Yeah.

BARBARELLA: And it was live or die! It was like everything just meant so much; it was like, so when I played, it was like, for so many years, like, I played like it was my last solo, it was the last statement I would ever make and it just meant everything, and that's how that band played, and you know and that's how Prince always played, obviously, you know

BLAND: Yeah!

BARBARELLA: That intensity, you know. But so there is that, and I think that's a really unique thing and something that is lost on this generation now; it's like it just doesn't happen like that so much, as nearly as much.

BLAND: Well also because it's so easy to see the most incredible things that have ever happened! (laughs) Just go to YouTube and you can, you know, you can get lost down any wormhole and see the most incredible, you know, you can go on there and watch, what's his name? Cory Henry! For, you know, you can get your mind blown for two hours straight just watching clips. You know.

McPHERSON: Well, the crucible that you two came out of is really impressive, and Tommy, I ran over you; I'll let you finish. What are you gonna say?

BARBARELLA: Just, you know, as far as putting that Diamonds and Pearls band together, we did come from different places; some people came — you know, Sonny came from the same place as Prince, kind of, in literally and musically in a lot of ways — but most of the other guys, obviously, and Rosie, you know, had the gospel background and all that. Me, not so much. Although I played with the Steeles, I learned some stuff from them. But I grew up playing classical piano, playing jazz, jazz gigs around town at that time. So you know, I was bringing that with me.

BLAND: Yeah!

BARBARELLA: The story I love to tell is the first rehearsal. The day of the first rehearsal with that band. We were just jamming. Prince kept telling me to lay out. And then afterwards, or on the break, whatever, he came in and was like, "Tommy, you know, you ever heard Grand Central Station?" I was like, "Nope." And he was like, "That explains it." This is like… so, which just to me is like, I can't believe I was so out of my element in some ways. You know? I didn't have that repertoire. I had, you know, I knew Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye. But I didn't know that next level. And I knew Sly [Stone], but I didn't know Larry [Graham]. So it was, talk about going to school! They always say working with Prince was like going to school. For me, it was like I was going to school and going to night school.

External Links

Prince - official site

The New Power Generation - official site

Credits

Host - Sean McPherson
Producers - Christy Taylor, Jesse Wiza, Luke Taylor
Technical Director - Eric Romani
Podcast audio - Luke Taylor